tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post4862641088580742026..comments2023-05-10T04:43:15.696-04:00Comments on Rogue Regime: Torah Tidbits: Parshat Ki Tisarogueregimehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16747123415617348742noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post-39129882073404583592010-03-09T17:32:06.434-05:002010-03-09T17:32:06.434-05:00> So crazy that these lines get left out in the...> So crazy that these lines get left out in the Reform telling...<br /><br />I don’t mean to be offensive but Reform Judaism is like parenting without any discipline. Sometimes a parent shows love by being firm with the child and setting limits. Sometimes punishment is needed. A child doesn’t understand this, he wants candy all the time and no consequences for misbehaviour and if you let kids run the world, that’s what kind of laws you’d get.<br /><br />>What "marvels"? Something post-splitting the Red Sea? <br /><br />Originally, before the sin of the spies, the entire conquest of Israel was meant to be on a miraculous basis.<br /><br />>not to "take of their daughters unto thy sons" lest "their daughters go astray after their gods, and make thy sons go astray after their gods"; and (c) not to make "molten gods." <br /><br />Ah yes, the intermarriage thing.<br /><br />> First of all, I can understand (sort of) the need in ancient times to vanquish the inhabitants of a land you want to conquer and possess, but surely this "advice" no longer makes any sense today. <br /><br />Really? Then explain what the Russians are doing in Chechnya, the Chinese in Tibet, the Sudanese in Darfur, the British in Ireland…<br /><br />Heck, how much of Canada and America was cleansed of natives when the Europeans came out here?<br /><br /> The idea that people need to be wiped out in order to avoid their pernicious influences <br /><br />Go further and read the book of Judges. We are a people very susceptible to assimilation. By not wiping out the Canaanites like God said, many bad things happened to our ancestors.<br /><br />>Second, this mention of not letting the non-Jewish women get ahold of the Jewish sons is interesting to me. <br /><br />Actually if you read the wording of the verse carefully, you see that this is where partilineal descent comes from. We don’t worry about the child of a Jewish mother because it’s Jewish, but the child of a Jewish father isn’t and so is lost to the people.<br /><br />>It doesn't say that intermarriage is inherently bad, <br /><br />Well later on it will.<br /><br />>Why specifically mention plowing and harvesting if the real intent of Shabbat were to prohibit many more kinds of work? <br /><br />Rashi’s explanation needs an… explanation. See, I might have thought that since the seventh year is called a Sabbatical year, that I don’t have to observe both the weekly and the yearly Sabbath, just the yearly one during that time. By emphasizing the times of the year, the verse hints that the weekly Shabbos applies at all times.<br /><br />>On the one hand, we have some better evidence here that it was actually the Ten Commandments on the tablets.<br /><br />That’s what most commentators say.<br /><br />Both sets were written by God. However, the first tablets were provided by God while Moshe had to provide the second set. The significance is that the first set were entirely Godly and by accepting them our ancestors would rise to a higher Godly state. The second set were a partnership between man and God and the people therefore remained as they were.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post-83512614915247933602010-03-09T17:31:18.184-05:002010-03-09T17:31:18.184-05:00> To my eyes, this seems like the most visceral...> To my eyes, this seems like the most visceral, personal kind of punishment, as if to say, "You like your golden idol...then eat it!" I have a much harder time buying into the "trial by ordeal" aspect implied by Rashi's commentary.<br /><br />Read Rashi again. Only certain people had to drink.<br /> This, frankly, makes no sense. First of all, who are these 3,000 people exactly? The mixed multitude who encouraged the making of the GC in the first place? <br />There were three classes of criminals. Those who had been properly warned before worshipping the calf were executed by Moshe’s court. Those who had no witnesses to warn them were tested by the gold-laced water. The ones who had been warned but not in a way suitable for the court were executed by the Levites.<br />>The people who did not view themselves as being on God's side? <br />The people were passive in preventing the idol worship and remained passive at this point.<br />> Second, this seems like an awfully small number given that we read how everyone -- including women and children -- played a role in the fabrication of the Calf.<br />All the mixed multitude.<br /><br />> Third, and to the point, what was the capital offense? Certainly not wanting to make the Calf; that would have included almost everyone. <br />Actually worshipping it was the capital offence. Again, only a small number actually went that far.<br />>Again, what was the sin for which (a) they did not have to be killed but (b) did need God's forgiveness? <br />The mixed multitude forced them to make an idol and worshipped it in front of them and they did… nothing. They all stood back and thought: not my problem. The allowing of evil to occur and thinking: Well, it’s not my fault so I don’t have to care, is not good.<br />>First, and most important, what is the "book" in question, and what does it mean to be blotted out of it? The Torah? <br />The Book of Life that sits before God.<br />>First, what kind of plague? Did people actually die? <br />The word “plague” generally refers to the disease of pestilence and yes, people died. These were people who had quietly sympathized with the idol worshippers even though they did not show outward support. Only God could know who they were so only He could mete out this justice.<br /> The strange things are (a) no where in this passage is there a description of what actually happens between Moses and the people who come wanting something from God<br /><br />If you look at the time line, he was only there for a couple of days so it probably didn’t happen since he spent those two days begging God for forgiveness.<br /><br /> ; and (b) how is it even possible for God to speak to Moses "face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend"?!?<br /><br />That’s why Moshe was so great, because he could still function at that level of spirituality. See, you have to understand the Jewish conception of prophecy. It is such a high level of spirituality that all other prophets would go unconscious and receive the prophecy as if in a dream, then they would wake up and have to remember what to say. Moshe Rabeinu was different. He could remain awake and converse normally like two people speaking face to face.<br /><br />> Okay, but then how was it possible just above for God to speak with Moses "face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend"?!?<br /><br />Based on what I wrote, it should be clear. It’s one thing to remain alert in the state of prophetic revelation, another to be able to withstand the sight of God’s unvarnished gloryGarnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post-22352992016053943502010-03-09T17:30:40.453-05:002010-03-09T17:30:40.453-05:00>but it seems to me that the relevance here is ...>but it seems to me that the relevance here is precisely this: to the extent you fail to abide by the norms, laws and beliefs of one's community, you are cut off from them.<br /><br />Yes. As Saadiyah Gaon once wrote – more than the Jew keeps Shabbos, Shabbos keeps the Jew.<br /><br />>How do we actually know what is engraved on these "tables of stone"?!?<br /><br />Different commentators have different opinions on what was written on the first tablets. Some say it was the Ten Commandments. Others say is was all the laws, both those we now have in the Written Torah and the others from the Oral Torah.<br /><br />>First of all, this instruction implies that everyone except men -- including young boys -- wore earrings. Was that true? Seems a bit odd.<br /><br />Even men wore earrings back then. What’s so odd about that?<br />1. "And all the people broke off the golden rings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron." <br />Depends how you define “people”. Many commentators hold that when the Torah refers to the generic “the people” it’s referring to the non-Jews who accompanied the Bnai Yisrael at the Exodus. It was they who had a hankering for an idol and brought their gold.<br />2. Out of curiosity, why a calf? <br />Aharon didn’t make the calf. Read the text carefully. Now, why a calf? Different animals have different symbolic meanings. A crocodile would have represents the idol worship of Egypt, something they had no further connection to. On the other hand, a lamb represents the passive person who leaves his care to God. A calf is capable of some labour but follows its mother obediently, in other words, a faithful servant.<br />>Are we to understand that the mixed multitude pressured (!) the Israelites into doing something they otherwise would not have done?<br />Yes. History is full of examples of small groups of determined people overriding the better judgement of a more passive majority. How many die-hard communists lived in Russia in 1917 but they took over the country!<br />3. How could Aaron have caved so easily to popular demands for an idol to worship and still have the standing (and the blessing of God) to become High Priest? <br />Again, read the text carefully. He wasn’t asked for an idol but for a replacement for Moshe Rabeinu. He didn’t actually make the idol but said he would hold a holiday for God. His whole strategy was to delay until Moshe returned.<br />Given that the mixed multitude was in the minority (right?), why did Aaron cave so quickly into their demands for an idol? Why not encourage the Israelites to have faith? Surely this was not Aaron's finest hour... <br />Yes, and Moshe criticized him for it. At any rate, the Talmud tells us that the MM’s seized power of a sort, killed Aharon’s assistant Hur and threatened him with death unless he complied. Now, Aharon knew it was just a matter of a short bit of time until Moshe returned so the stalling was all he could do.<br />>The striking thing, to me, is that God complains about how obstinate the Israelites are as if he weren't already aware of that fact. Moreover, God seems to be pretty short-tempered with a people who have only known idolatry most of their lives. <br />1) Who says He wasn’t aware? He was speaking with Moshe and explaining His upcoming actions.<br />2) If you tell your son something is really, really important, and your son looks at you and says “Sure dad, I understand and I’ll never do it” and then 5 minutes later he goes and does it, what would your reaction be? How much more so the nation of Israel which had just been released from slavery by God and which then turned their backs on Him?<br />>but who am I to contradict Rashi, right?<br /><br />And don’t ever forget that.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post-89438289980530902422010-03-09T17:29:33.743-05:002010-03-09T17:29:33.743-05:00> In the most basic sense here, something is h...> In the most basic sense here, something is holy because we make it holy -- combining God's instructions with earthly objects and our intentions sanctifies a thing. <br /><br />Remember that the Hebrew root KDSh means separate. Kodesh means holy. A kedeisha is a prostitute. Same root, same underlying idea of separation from average, albeit in two different directions. Some things are intrinsically holy without out input, like Shabbos. Other things we do make holy by setting the item apart for sacred use.<br /><br />> I like the idea that holiness is not intrinsic to some thing or place, <br /><br />Well that’s only the case some of the time. For example, there is a level of holiness on the Temple Mount even though there’s a mosque there now. Israel has a level of holiness despite the lack of a proper Torah-based government. On the other hand, yes it’s nice to know we can make something holy through our efforts.<br /><br /> I kind of like this phrasing: Instead of making Bezalel able to do something, or commanding him to do it. God, in essence, inspires him to create works of art:<br /><br />The commentators explain this as follows: the construction of the Mishkan did not involve simply fabricating the items. They had to be constructed with the proper set of mental intentions as well. Betzalel could build it but he had to have the right thoughts and understanding of the spiritual content as well as the physical content.<br /><br />> Again, nice imagery, though it begs the question: Who are these "wise-hearted" people? Everyone?!? <br /><br />Same thing I told you last week. The experts in each field.<br /><br />every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." <br /><br />There are two aspects to Shabbos. There is the positive – observe it, receive its holiness, use it to make yourself a closer relationship with God. However, there is the negative – since Shabbos is so holy, rejecting it is like rejecting God, something He doesn’t take kindly to, hence the punishment aspect.<br /><br /><br /> As before, I'm probably soft-pedaling what was actually a capital offense (though it begs the question of how many people were actually executed for violating shabbat...), <br /><br />I doubt anyone ever was. Once you learn about how capital punishment worked, you’ll quickly see that getting a conviction was pretty much impossible.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post-27345730783671574952010-03-09T17:28:21.164-05:002010-03-09T17:28:21.164-05:00> In the most basic sense here, something is h...> In the most basic sense here, something is holy because we make it holy -- combining God's instructions with earthly objects and our intentions sanctifies a thing. <br /><br />Remember that the Hebrew root KDSh means separate. Kodesh means holy. A kedeisha is a prostitute. Same root, same underlying idea of separation from average, albeit in two different directions. Some things are intrinsically holy without out input, like Shabbos. Other things we do make holy by setting the item apart for sacred use.<br /><br />> I like the idea that holiness is not intrinsic to some thing or place, <br /><br />Well that’s only the case some of the time. For example, there is a level of holiness on the Temple Mount even though there’s a mosque there now. Israel has a level of holiness despite the lack of a proper Torah-based government. On the other hand, yes it’s nice to know we can make something holy through our efforts.<br /><br /> I kind of like this phrasing: Instead of making Bezalel able to do something, or commanding him to do it. God, in essence, inspires him to create works of art:<br /><br />The commentators explain this as follows: the construction of the Mishkan did not involve simply fabricating the items. They had to be constructed with the proper set of mental intentions as well. Betzalel could build it but he had to have the right thoughts and understanding of the spiritual content as well as the physical content.<br /><br />> Again, nice imagery, though it begs the question: Who are these "wise-hearted" people? Everyone?!? <br /><br />Same thing I told you last week. The experts in each field.<br /><br />every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." <br /><br />There are two aspects to Shabbos. There is the positive – observe it, receive its holiness, use it to make yourself a closer relationship with God. However, there is the negative – since Shabbos is so holy, rejecting it is like rejecting God, something He doesn’t take kindly to, hence the punishment aspect.<br /><br /><br /> As before, I'm probably soft-pedaling what was actually a capital offense (though it begs the question of how many people were actually executed for violating shabbat...), <br /><br />I doubt anyone ever was. Once you learn about how capital punishment worked, you’ll quickly see that getting a conviction was pretty much impossible.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6860099244483925923.post-7890097548111910762010-03-07T19:05:21.623-05:002010-03-07T19:05:21.623-05:00I don`t have a huge amount of time but lets seem w...I don`t have a huge amount of time but lets seem what I can fit in:<br /><br />. First, this seems a little out of the blue in this context. <br /><br />The silver was used for parts of the Mishkan. The ransom for the soul is a limited English translation. The idea of the donation was to pledge one`s soul to the great soul of the nation.<br /><br />. Where does this number come from? Rashi says that this is the minimum age for serving in the army<br /><br />Women were not counted in this census.<br /><br />. have to call b.s. on some of this. These were really scarce, expensive things back in those days,<br /><br />God would not ask them for things they did not have. At any rate, archeological evidence does suggest there was enough of each in Egypt at the time to make it plausible they had the amounts listed.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com